Saturday, August 11, 2007

Debate with Silly Leftist #1 - Part Deux

My earlier comments in blue
His Replies in Green
My Secondary Replies in Red
Side comments grey - Did not appear in original dialogue

actually the US was largely isolationist between WWI and WWII and conflict free for the most part Banana Wars and other wars in Latin America…I said they were largely not completely isolationist …..please read my wording properly The Americans needed to build their military; they were not quite ready to interfere in Europe and colonies in Africa……..and of course after that they were planning to aid the Klingons against the Romulans to bring in Regime change…. This is all baseless speculation.

I believe North Korea invaded South Korea in 1950 to force a regime change The Americans with the backing of South Korean political leader Syngman Rhee called for United Nations-sponsored elections to ratify the republic of South Korea. Nothing wrong with that. Full Korean elections were unrealistic – the Soviets were not prepared to let this happen as Kim IL Sung’s supporters were outnumbered 2 to 1. Many Koreans in Cheju…? , who were involved in the Korean independent movement, were divested to hear such calls: “The prospect of a permanent division of Korea sparked renewed upheaval. When mass demonstrations failed to stop the sham election, some workers and peasants began localized guerrilla battles in early 1948”(Cummings, Bruce),,, Agreed. Most Koreans wanted a reunion -but under their own terms not those of the dictator Kim-Il Sung and his totalitarian regime.

The Americans (and the Soviets initially - My experience is that Lefties for the sake of convenience tend to ignore that there was more than one player in the Cold War - before they gave the go-ahead for invasion) wanted to create a buffer zone and did not care for the will of the Koreans.

In a way you are correct here (he had a partial point)Cold War real politics influenced judgment significantly. The tragedy of the Korean situation is that both the US and the USSR are to blame (no analysis of Cold War Politics can should forget this dichotomy – we should also not forget China’s role later on) for the problem in the first place as both substituted power politics for the will of the Korean people. On moral grounds this cannot be defended. On practical terms it has worked out well for the South Koreans for the most part.
North Korea is a failed nation…a hermit kingdom…a monument for the transformation of utopic ideals into a dystopic hell….If the UN/America - (90% of the foreign troops were American but troops from 15 other countries including Canada took part – South Korea supplied 50% of the total troops) - had not acted in the Korean War to block the North Korean Invasion it seems likely that 40 million + extra people would have been doomed to live under an autocracy where large segments of the population have faced starvation under a brutal regime. Instead as of 2007 South Korea is an economic success, a democracy and one of the Four Asian Tigers… good for them. It has one of the highest standards of livings in Asia while North Korea has arguably the lowest. History has proven that American intervention in 1950 was the right action. I would give up the defense of North Korea if I were you **, most of the diehard leftists have abandoned that sinking ship a long time ago. Il Sung may have been a ‘progressive’ darling at one time (as Chavex is now) but the ‘nepotistic kingdom’ that he has constructed is an insult to any body who values freedom
.

On comparing Gitmo to the Gulags


Lets see millions of innocents perished in the brutal Soviet Gulags…. There are a five hundred or so terrorists at Gitmo ….Seems a reasonable comparison…NOT….

You completely miss the pointYou had a point? The United States cannot declare itself as a democratic and free country…it is free and democratic but it is also a nation at war with Islamist militancy………., while maintaining secret prisons. Obviously not that secretive if most us appear to know about them…, where torture and humiliation is the norm. Its not the norm…I agree that it is an issue……. but comparing this to the Soviet Gulags as the Amnesty International article indicated is ridiculous That is the Point.

On a ridiculous poll that argues that most people in the UK see Israel, US, North Korea and Iran as being negative force, I couldn't resist this spin.


Easy to Explain:Those with knowledge chose: Iran and North KoreaThe rest: Israel and the US Right

because all those who criticize America and Israel are ignorant….No but those who take stock in silly BBC polls of this nature go some way to validating your assertion….. . Whatever you say champ. it just wasn't worth the effort to adress a seemingly lack of wit.

He still continues to avoid adressing the question below:

Why is it that non-Muslims such as myself (and many others) seem more concerned about violence by Muslims towards their fellow co-religionists than most Muslims are on the very same issues? Example – The Taliban killings, Darfur, Shi’ite-Sunni violence in Iraq etc. Right, because all Muslims you know think the same wayNote the lack of lcomprehension here..I never said this either? For the umpteenth time read my question, think, then reply. Most Muslims do not ascribe to the Taliban’s interpretation of Islam and their views on Women. Ok – Then why were there so few mass demonstrations organized by the Muslim community against the Taliban when they were in power? Why were there hardly any demonstrations against Saddam Hussein when he was in power? I believe he suppressed both the Kurds and Shi’ites – fellow Muslims?
Moreover, let us not forget who created the Taliban.
A typical leftist tactic diversion

A conglomerate of influence but the main ideological framnework driving the worst excesses of their Taliban behaviour is Wahhabism – a brand of Islam promoted by the Saudis while they mascarade as allies of the West. The tragedy here as well – and I have mentioned this several times before – is that the US has not been tough enough on the Saudis.

As for Darfur: http://www.tikkun.org/rabbi_lerner/news_item.2006-05-04.0900952813

Good – it took them long enough. Now maybe these organizations can put action to word and start pressuring Russia and China to stop supplying arms to the Islamist perpetrators. I find it interesting though how you had to go to a Jewish site to pick this up. Jewish groups – right and left (and believe me I am no fan of Rabbi Lerner but he is correct on his position with respect to Darfur) have generally been very vocal about condemning the genocide in Sudan. After all as victims of genocide ourselves (– as well as world indifference) – we have seem first hand what the outcome can be.

You have a bad habit of generalizing people. - an act of deperation - but how about this for a doozy of a reply

No just a good habit of not being Politically Correct when genocide is a factor….


For more read:

Read
http://www.healingthebody.net/articles/shameful%20muslim%20silence.htm
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID={CF026FD7-6530-46F4-8891-2CF66295E617}
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/03/13/sudan-un.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sudan/story/0,,2032477,00.html

Cheers

Gavin

Post a Comment