On Ayaan Ali Hirsi

This is an extract from a debate I am currently involved in regarding Ayaan Ali Hirsi and her interview with Avi Lewis on CBC.
My words are in red. His words are in Blue.


She joined the center right mainstream Dutch VVDparty after breaking with the Labour party . While VVD is a champion of Free Enterprise it also supports the secular nature of the country’s political system and its welfare state structure. VVD has members from a variety of ethnic groups. It is not racist."
The VVD has used immigrant as scapegoat many times; even so far as wanting to deport some immigrants because they are known "bring in diseases".
Can you be more specific? This is rather vague…. and I suspect not even close to the full story.

She lied on her application to the Netherlands?

To avoid a fixed marriage organized by her clan. The same clan that carried through her circumcision when she was a child.

Many Somali women and women from other ethnic groups go through arrange marriages. For many people it is a tradition. In Somali, such traditions are not enforced if the woman is not a willing participant.

This was not the case with Hirsi Ali. Read http://www.racematters.org/ayaanhirsiali.htm and http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,1485350,00.html

Moreover, after the Dutch investigated further her refugee claim, it was “ Reported that Hirsi Ali had given false information about her real name, her age and the country she arrived from when originally applying for asylum. The program also presented evidence that she was untruthful about the main reason for her asylum application being forced marriage. Hirsi Ali admitted that she had lied about her full name, her date of birth and the manner in which she had come to the Netherlands.”

Does this make her story of brutality and forced circumcision any less valid? You are avoiding the key issue here which is the Treatment of Women in various segments of Muslim society.

She believes ALL Muslims should be treated as terrorists when being interviewed for any government jobs

I don’t agree with her on this point but her reaction may have come from the numerous death threats that she continually receives. I suggest you read her book titled: 'Infidel'.

So just because she gets letters from a few radicals she is justified in stereotyping all Muslims?

Read my point above and think about it again. I believe she is wrong on this particular issue. This again however does not detract from the sexism that she faced. As for your radicals argument I believe it was her good friend Theo van Gogh - who was brutally killed by one of these ‘letter writing radicals’ that you so euphemistically dismiss. A note attached to the body of Van Gogh threatened Ayaan Ali Hirsi as well. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theo_van_Gogh_(film_director)


Her clichés are naïve and her attitude seems to be that of a person who has no sense of American history and current politics. Based on your opinion. I sense the same elitism with your response as with that of Avi Lewis…This further strengthens my decision to bring Lewis’ odious arrogance on You Tube to light.

Obviously, she believes America can do no harm. She never once said that…More speculation on your behalf

She constantly touts how America is a secular society where gays, blacks and women have many rights they do compared to most of the countries worldwide and all Muslim countries are radical racist. This is the same America where the Supreme Court recent decision threatened the historic Brown v. Board of Education

You are being vague again. Lets have some specifics before resorting to hyperbole. If you are referring to the recent 5-4 decision by the Court rejecting race as a guide for school admission then the court decision was correct. As Chief Justice John Roberts wrote: The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race. This is very much in keeping with Brown v Board. . … Where Bush endorsed a constitutional amendment on gay marriage…Yes but it didn’t succeed. Thankfully it failed in the Senate. A triumph for the system.. By the way what is the status of gay rights in Somalia? U.N. expert faulted US officials of approving and using torture or inhumane treatment that is illegal under international law… Yes the UN – the same body that elected Libya as Chair of its Human Rights Commission……See http://hrw.org/press/2002/08/libya080902.htm . The same esteemed organization that has been rendered ineffective in coordinating action to prevent the genocide in Darfur (Muslim on Muslim violence for the most part) because whenever the issue is raised it is stifled by such paragons of human rights as Saudi Arabia, Russia, China and Sudan.…. THE UN as an honest broker when it comes to the US? I think not.

(He then said ALL Somalis are opposed to her ideas)

“Are you the official spokes person? Why do you assume all Somalis are so uniform in their thinking?” I never said I was…. However, said person constantly stereotypes all Somalis and is not active within the community…

She is still entitled to criticize what she sees as unjust. There are many in the Muslim world who agree with her. Read http://www.petitiononline.com/AyaanHir/

Question for the day: Why is it that non-Muslims such as myself (and many others) seem more concerned about violence by Muslims towards their fellow co-religionists than most Muslims are on the very same issues? I know I will be criticized for this question but I believe it to be legitimate. eg, Darfur, Shi'ite/Sunni violence - Iraq, Lebanon, Afghanistan etc.